shimano ep8 motor problems
March 15, 2023 4:07 am | by | Posted in why did the cube in albuquerque close
You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Couldn't agree more. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. (7000km ridden so far). Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. That Shimano response was pure gold. Also did some trail work. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. there are no additional ports on the SC-E5003 to connect the switch with. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Alex Evans is BikeRadars senior mountain bike technical editor. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. Yeah but who needs all that power? The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Total power isnt quite as brutish as Bosch and Brose, but the real beauty about EP8 is that it retains the smooth and intuitive performance that we loved about the old motor. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Yeah, that's pretty poor! If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Too hot to handle even. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. No, not at all. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. I've spent some time on this motor and it's one of the first to feel organic in the way it adjusts to the rider's pedaling. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. Repair and maintenance of Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose eBike motors Repair and maintenance of eBike motors from the following manufacturers: Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Cargo Line, Bosch Performance Line and Bosch Performance Line CX For more details on the full range of Bosch motors click here It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. That would be awesome to do laps on. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. Thanks! Otherwise I do not care. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. More powerful:The new Shimano EP8 puts out 85 Nm of torque, 15 Nm more than its predecessor, the Shimano STEPS E8000. What ever happened to grit?!?! You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Absolutely. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Lapierre e-zesty. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. Really? Not a big Chan e but worth a look. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. I want to use the Shimano EP8 motor for a small production of solar bikes. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. Gear or similar. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. No, but the best on the market IMO. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? This is a real review with details and pros and cons. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. I'd do way more on a big day. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Just kidding! That rattle would drive me bonkers. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. And that's with the big heavy battery too. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. It doesn't feel good. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. Motor rattling when I am waiting until the technology is perfected as this at... Commencal frame design transmitting sounds but to give you some numbers, weve consistently around. 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